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not relevant to this thread!!! if UPSC wants to finish off the coaching culture, I think it should provide a list of books from which one can get all the static knowledge. Many join coaching because they dont have any idea about what to study from and how to go about preparation. I think providing a list of books can help. This is done by RBI for its grade B officers exam. I don't see why UPSC shouldn't do it..
RBI did it for fun purposes .. I guess u havnt been through the list and the books mentioned in it. It would take 2 yrs to go through all the books mentioned by the rbi. And yes, there was not a single question from the books..
not relevant to this thread!!! if UPSC wants to finish off the coaching culture, I think it should provide a list of books from which one can get all the static knowledge. Many join coaching because they dont have any idea about what to study from and how to go about preparation. I think providing a list of books can help. This is done by RBI for its grade B officers exam. I don't see why UPSC shouldn't do it..
RBI did it for fun purposes .. I guess u havnt been through the list and the books mentioned in it. It would take 2 yrs to go through all the books mentioned by the rbi. And yes, there was not a single question from the books..
I don't know if its for fun. I never took the test myself. But, I like the idea that the exam conducting authority takes the time to tell the candidates where to study from. The thing is, RBI doesn't have an essay type exam like UPSC does. So, there must be a difference here no?
these coaching institutes have thrived because of the never ending changes introduced by the UPSC itself for last 4-5 years. csat, removal of csat, 4 gs papers, world history, ethics etc etc. This has increased uncertainity and the coaching institutes have made loads of money because of this. Once this sylllabus and pattern issue is settled, the coaching business will come down. though it will not be eliminated altogether as i have mentioned in my previous post. removal of optionals will help in reducing the coaching effect because people will not worry about arre yaar ORN mein log pata nhn kya kya pad rahe hain. majority of sane people will agree on this.
moreover, gs ka paper leveller hota hai..bhale hi vajiram ya totaram se pade ya na pade but he can score well if he has covered the syllabus from various sources but yeh coachings optionals se saara game bigaad deti hai. people in rural areas, far-off places cannot access these coachings. secondly, all optionals do not have good course material in hindi and other regional languages therefore it create bias against many candidates.
moreover, gs ka paper leveller hota hai..bhale hi vajiram ya totaram se pade ya na pade but he can score well if he has covered the syllabus from various sources but yeh coachings optionals se saara game bigaad deti hai. people in rural areas, far-off places cannot access these coachings. secondly, all optionals do not have good course material in hindi and other regional languages therefore it create bias against many candidates.
Bhai i didnt join coaching still able to attempt 500 and score 280 plus , Coaching has no role if u study properly, Aur upsc ka koi bhi syllabus ho caoching to band nahi hogai kyunki humare desh mein self doubt both hai
moreover, gs ka paper leveller hota hai..bhale hi vajiram ya totaram se pade ya na pade but he can score well if he has covered the syllabus from various sources but yeh coachings optionals se saara game bigaad deti hai. people in rural areas, far-off places cannot access these coachings. secondly, all optionals do not have good course material in hindi and other regional languages therefore it create bias against many candidates.
Bhai i didnt join coaching still able to attempt 500 and score 280 plus , Coaching has no role if u study properly, Aur upsc ka koi bhi syllabus ho caoching to band nahi hogai kyunki humare desh mein self doubt both hai
tmhr 280 optional mein aaye matlab koi na koi service toh mili hogi? waise tmhr number se tmhr bhaavnaon ko samjha jaa sakta hai.
@all Any representations or recommendations can be sent to the committee by way of addressing a letter to Additional Secretary Examination who is also a member secretary of the Baswan Committee. This is according to the reply to an RTI I filed.
Whether you want optional or not, everyone of us is a stake holder here. So, I'd suggest everyone of you to send them your views. Its better than discussing here, right?
The committee is expected to submit its report by next month end. So.. you better hurry up!
I think its better to have a discussion here and send the main pros and cons to Mr Baswan and how they can minimise the cons. That will give him a better viewpoint and help in making an informed decision.
I think the purpose of creating this thread is that you want to justify your logic of wanting optionals. For reasons completely personal, you want optionals (may be you are from JNU) and you want people to take note of it. And you are also hopeful that Baswan and others who are involved in the reform process will take note of this thread and make their recommendations. All the very best. Please remember if you give 1 reason in favour of optionals there are people who have already submitted 10 reasons against optionals. So you can better try to liaise with Baswan committee directly instead of ranting here and enraging others who have suffered in their lives mainly because of optionals where a guy who is toiling hard in a technical subject gets 200 whereas someone in a literature subject with not even half the efforts get 350+ and get into civil services with extremely low marks in GS and interview. Such low marks in GS and interview clearly states he/she is less deserving to join the services whereas more deserving guys are languishing because of this illogical bias every year. Those in favour of optionals before making your armchair logic, please go and talk to those who scored 30s and 40s in Pub ad and other subjects in 2012 and you will get a mouthful.
Hahaha... nice wishful thinking.... and really nice imagination to think I am from JNU or I want Baswan Committee to see this thread... Also, its a bit far fetched... I know the usual rhetorics of the people who want optional gone.... Apart from that... I would benefit the most if the optionals are gone... So, your allegation that I have some personal interest is definately not true....
But the excuse aspirants give.. like my life is ruined cause of optionals... Literature is such a scoring subject ... i got more marks in GS and interview... etc are so shallow that any logical person would question them....
Aspirants are free to choose optional... If a aspirant really feel Literature is that easy... they should leave their optional today and ace the scoring optional, as it would take less than half the effort they have put in... No one is holding a gun to their head to take the optional they have taken..... Their life is not ruined cause of optionals.. its because they feel that the optional is only to qualify the exam... Its just a means to reach their desired end.... And thats why aspirants feel like its a burden....
Apart from this, there are less specialised coachings for such Literature subjects which do not give specialised coachings as in case of GS or some yesteryear popular subjects like PubAd etc which have been harshly graded to such an extent that they are going down with a vengence.. PublicAd had very specialist teachers who knew the nature of questions asked, the patterns and the areas which fetch greatest number or questions and they had turned it into a formula... UPSC changed its pattern and these coachings are almost down and out now.. However, literature subjects require personal effort which is rewarded... as their is dearth of study material as well as no coachings to take coaching... Thus the aspirant in Literature is left to himself to grasp the concepts and work ... Which cant be done without genuine interest...
But its not.... The thing is that, what UPSC wants is that aspirants develop a genuine interest in what they r studying so that they can retain it.... Cause unless and untill one have a genuine interest or passion for the subject and, later in aspirants life, their jobs, they would take it as a burden and would do the minimal required... There is a notion of Service involved in IAS, IPS, IRS etc... which the apointees would not be able to do if they dont love their job.... Thus they wont be able to do justice to their respective field....
Aspirants should stop from giving rhetorics and beating around the bush and put forth logical arguments in support of their views, which most aspirants dont do even in answer sheets. They take optionals because one of the senior qualified with that optional, or that optional has been doing great in previous years (latest examples being sociology and philosophy).
Gaurav agrawal qualified with Economics, which has a very lengthy course as well is very hard to grasp. He also had history in his first attempt which everyone said, he shouldnt take as it was not doing well. But he had a genuine interest in it and he qualified it in his first attempt and in second attempt he topped. Economics is very unconventional subject and hardly anyone gets good marks and the success rate is very low and their are hardly any good coaching to provide good guidance. If he can do it so can every aspirant.
There are myriads of such examples. India is poor country. 30% of its population live under $1 per day. The issue of equity, public service,hardwork and perseverance in adverse situations is essential. There cannot be a shortcut to UPSC.
Everyone is great in their respective ways and has unique talents which they should nourish and reach their potential. Good luck to you Sir and to all the aspirants.
It's clear u have vested interests. I don't want to talk to you anymore and I don't want to waste my time on engaging with you in this thread or in forum anymore.
moreover, gs ka paper leveller hota hai..bhale hi vajiram ya totaram se pade ya na pade but he can score well if he has covered the syllabus from various sources but yeh coachings optionals se saara game bigaad deti hai. people in rural areas, far-off places cannot access these coachings. secondly, all optionals do not have good course material in hindi and other regional languages therefore it create bias against many candidates.
Bhai i didnt join coaching still able to attempt 500 and score 280 plus , Coaching has no role if u study properly, Aur upsc ka koi bhi syllabus ho caoching to band nahi hogai kyunki humare desh mein self doubt both hai
tmhr 280 optional mein aaye matlab koi na koi service toh mili hogi? waise tmhr number se tmhr bhaavnaon ko samjha jaa sakta hai.
I never said those with high marks in optional or exceptionally high marks in optional deserve to be in service.
What I said is people with exceptionally high marks in optional get through even though their GS scores are poor. Yes those with low GS and interview scores don't deserve to be in rank list because they are trampling the ones with balanced knowledge of GS+Optional only because of UPSC bias favouring some optional while butchering a few optionals. How on earth is this justified where a person with 350+ in optional and not even 250 in all 4 GS combined and an odd 140 in interview deserve to be in service whereas his compatriots with far better scores in GS but just scoring in 220s in optionals don't get through primarily because of the system which is clearly discriminatory.
Either have same standards for all optionals (in terms of scoring pattern) or remove the paper. Simple
but if some score 220 is optional then that doesnt mean a person scoring 350 in exam is fake. Every one level of preparation is different
Oh yes. But the system must answer whether there are 350+ scores in all optionals where a sizable number of students write? Does Pub ad, geo, socio have 350+ scores? Why only a few optional have 350+ scores? Do you have an iota of knowledge how 2012 people suffered? There were 30s and 40s in Pub ad whereas literature was having 350+ scores? Please don't put forth theoretical view points. Only those who practically suffered can understand how optional perpetuates discrimination
Pub Ad does not score 350+, they score around (110+120)... Also the competition in Socio is cut throat.. Almost half of the aspirants are choosing Socio.. compare the percentage of person who qualify with Socio optional to that who appear with socio optional.... thats a very dismal percentage... So if the topper is getttng 350+. he/she has awesome knowledge about the subject and he has excellent mind to analyse every possible aspect in depth either before exam or in exam itself...
Anyone can take any optional and if one is not happy with their chosen one, they can always change... Many with Soci optional qualify on their first attempt and only 2-3 month of preperation(as per their own admission) and its only January right now....
Good Luck Sir
Refer to previous years topper's interview published on mrunal or any other site most of them favoured removal of optional. Unlike popular optionals ,in language optional there is fixed syllabus of some novels and poetry and questions get repeated every year. So aspirants getting average or more marks in popular optionals are putting more or less same amount of hard work as that of literature optional students who gets 350+ marks.
Refer to the previous years toppers and you will find that those who took optionals they had in graduation are the ones who got 350+ marks in their optionals. Examples being Gaurav Agarwal, Roman Saini etc who have studied their respective optionals in college time. How can a person with 3 month of preperation compete with one with those who studied their optional for 4-5 years in college. UPSC wants aspirants to choose those optional which they had in graduation. This also means that they want to know if the student have decision making capability from an early age or they just do what the toppers tell them which optional doing good for past 3-4 years. Most of them choose optional based on toppers opinion or those optionals which are doing good.
UPSC has become dynamic.. so adapt or perish... Develop the skills required that UPSC wants us to have. If decision making is your poor suit, one must build on it and thou shall succeed.
these coaching institutes have thrived because of the never ending changes introduced by the UPSC itself for last 4-5 years. csat, removal of csat, 4 gs papers, world history, ethics etc etc. This has increased uncertainity and the coaching institutes have made loads of money because of this. Once this sylllabus and pattern issue is settled, the coaching business will come down. though it will not be eliminated altogether as i have mentioned in my previous post. removal of optionals will help in reducing the coaching effect because people will not worry about arre yaar ORN mein log pata nhn kya kya pad rahe hain. majority of sane people will agree on this.
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tmhr 280 optional mein aaye matlab koi na koi service toh mili hogi? waise tmhr number se tmhr bhaavnaon ko samjha jaa sakta hai.
UPSC has become dynamic.. so adapt or perish... Develop the skills required that UPSC wants us to have. If decision making is your poor suit, one must build on it and thou shall succeed.